Looking into a tow rig, got some questions

[dsgray16]

First off the big desision i have to make first is diesel or gas...

If i did go gas i would still go for a chevy 2500, or possibly a Ford F-250.

My question with that would be, if im only towing my XJ once a month or so, will i be ok with gas instead of diesel?

I would rather go diesel..but now with the price of diesel being so much higher than gas im wondering if its worth it.

Im looking at a 2001 chevy 2500 with a 6.6 duramax and allison trany, 60,000 miles on it and i can get it for about $19,000. sound fair? The only down side i see with it is that it has a plow mount on it and iv been told to avoid trucks that have been plowed..any input on this issue would also be appreciated.

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2007/2/7/217/019/1624418194.217019248.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

thanks

[Jeepin Jason]

the increased fuel mileage vs a similarly equipped gasser should help make up for the difference in price. We 4+mpg better towing with our Megacab than we did with our Denali XL. The Denali got crappy mileage though -- the 6.0L plus AWD plus wide sticky street tires will do that to ya.

Just give it a bit more time... before the year is up I bet we'll see 87 octane at or above the price of diesel. When we bought our Megacab over Memorial Day weekend of last year, diesel was 5-10 cents cheaper than 87 octane. Diesel prices are also far stabler than regular gas. Locally, gas has gone up like 31 cents in the last 4 weeks, diesel's changed maybe, 4 cents, if that much.

[dsgray16]

Thanks Jason

I know there seems to be a bunch of Cummins fans on here.. but are there any supporters of the Duramax that can say anything, good or bad, about this 2500 im looking at?

[teamair2k2]

I have friends that love them, in fact 2 out of 3 traded POS 6.0 liter Fords for them. Saying that I personally think that the Cummins is the way to go.

[Shane]

I have a 99 Cummins and it was probably the best purchase i've made. Fun to drive on the roads, tows like a motha and i once got 26mpg (or so it said) on the freeway unloaded.

[dsgray16]

I found this 2000 Dodge with a diesel, they want $16k for it and its got just under 100K miles.. Truck looks really nice though

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2006/12/22/214/583/1392589139.214583300.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g

What should you expect to get out of a cummins milage wise?

[Shane]

I found this 2000 Dodge with a diesel, they want $16k for it and its got just under 100K miles.. Truck looks really nice though

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2006/12/22/214/583/1392589139.214583300.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g
Are you sure that's the right picture?

[dsgray16]

heres the link to the add:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=214583300&dealer_id=73381&car_year=2000&model=RAM25002WD&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=1996&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=Diesel&search_type=both&distance=75&make=DODGE&color=&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=02842&advanced=y&end_year=2003&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=24

yeah the badging seems wrong on the door doesnt it?

[Shane]

Looks like a v8 to me :dunno:

[dsgray16]

Looks like a v8 to me :dunno:
agreed

false advertising :cry:

[mcamish01]

Like Jason said, your fuel economy with a diesel is gonna be extremly better than a gasser, both towing and empty, thus negating increased fuel costs and vehicle costs if you plan to keep it, plus it will tow much better when you need it. As for the duramax, my experiences with them have been good, its no Cummins....but its less likely to completely eat itself like a 6.0 PS.

[Jeepin Jason]

As for the duramax... its no Cummins....but its less likely to completely eat itself like a 6.0 POS.

fixed it for ya. :thumbsup:

[XJ_FIREFIGHTER]

You can find good deals on 2000 ish Fords with the 7.3 Powerstroke. It's a good motor IMO... No Cummins but usually a tad cheaper.

[BigTex]

To answer your question about gassers. I towed with my 04 Dodge 1500 Hemi during the entire 2006 WeRock and XRRA seasons. I am willing to bet that I tow further then any other Jeepin member (not including the pro semi drivers on here). That being said I put 90,000 miles on my 1500 in two years, the majority of those miles being fully loaded with a 16" flatbed, the Catter, spare 40" tire, spare beadlock, all of my spare parts, food, luggage, my crew (4 of us) and usually carried about 20 gallons of spare fuel. The truck was overloaded and it NEVER failed me. Will you have the same luck? Maybe. Are you going to be as hard as I was on my 1500? No way. If you are doing light duty towing, the gasser might be best for you. If you have the funds you should always buy more truck then you need, that way you can grow with it.


That being said I am now driving a Cummins 3500.

[FX4Jeep]

Go with the diesel. Dont know too many people out here in cali that drive a duramax. Most of the farmers and such drive the PSD. I just bought mine 6 months ago and have put 14,000 miles on it. Havnt had a single problem. I love my truck. If you do end up getting a gasser the first thing I would do would be to put a trailer brake controler in it (assuming your trailer has brakes). Most trucks can tow a lot of wieght, but stopping all that wieght is where problems start. In Nor Cal right now diesel is 5 cents cheaper then 87 oct.:thumbsup:

[Jeepin Jason]

If you do end up getting a gasser the first thing I would do would be to put a trailer brake controler in it (assuming your trailer has brakes).

I'd do that either way. :thumbsup:

[FX4Jeep]

I'd do that either way. :thumbsup:

For sure!:thumbsup: my F-250 came standard with one. I just figured most diesels already had one installed from the factory:dunno:

[xj_man_646]

i love all the newer model diesels. ford 7.3, chevy 6.6, dodge 5.9. they are all great for towing, no matter what you get. any of the 3 will tow like its nobodies business. cummins is my favorite, followed by the 7.3, then the dmax, but they are all pretty close. i'd say go for what you can afford.

edit: one of the reasons i put chevy in last is because i like dodge/ford with SFA :thumbsup:

[J.D.]

What should you expect to get out of a cummins milage wise?

What milage? Fuel milage? Or engine life? For fuel milage I have heard of people getting 23MPG and higher. That is with the proper gearing and transmission setup and a few mods to exhaust and fueling. Engine life they go pretty easily up to 400-500K before anything major happens...the drive train is a different story.


As for the DMax. I like them. Tons of power and they have the allison transmissions. The tranny is the best part of those trucks. The dmax can get pretty good fuel milage too. I'm not sure about the engine life on them. Better ride with the GM also with its IFS. Dmax are alot more expensive to fix if they do break though. With a cummins you can take it to almost any diesel shop and parts will be available for it since they are in everything from rams to tractors to mid size and big rigs.

[J.D.]

i love all the newer model diesels. ford 7.3, chevy 6.6, dodge 5.9. they are all great for towing, no matter what you get. any of the 3 will tow like its nobodies business. cummins is my favorite, followed by the 7.3, then the dmax, but they are all pretty close. i'd say go for what you can afford.

edit: one of the reasons i put chevy in last is because i like dodge/ford with SFA :thumbsup:

Agreed but when it is a tow rig the SFA vs IFS really doesn't matter. The ride in the GMs is alot better IMHO....but I still prefer SFA which is one reason among many that I will not buy a GM.

[dsgray16]

Thanks, great advice

Any input on whether a plow mount should be seen as a negative or positive attribute?

[Jeepin Jason]

For sure!:thumbsup: my F-250 came standard with one. I just figured most diesels already had one installed from the factory:dunno:

Nope, unfortunately that's just a Ford thing right now. I have no idea why Dodge and GM haven't added integrated trailer brake controllers yet. :rolleyes: Our Megacab did at least come with the pigtail harness and instructions for wiring in a brake controller though.

[dsgray16]

This one seems to be the best deal in my area right now

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2007/2/21/216/315/1690700391.216315984.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g

2001 for $21K with 60k on it

[Leadfoot]

Thanks Jason

I know there seems to be a bunch of Cummins fans on here.. but are there any supporters of the Duramax that can say anything, good or bad, about this 2500 im looking at?

I have a duramax and love it. Most of my friends rum them. 2 of them traded in various cummins to get their DMax. Not trying to start a flame war, just stating facts. In fact, I tried to help one of them sell his CTD on here, but no one was interested.

The only problem I would see with the 01 would be injectors. GM covers those for 10 yrs 110k miles I believe so you would be fine anyway. You should be able to call a dealer with the vin and they can tell you if the injectors have been replaced with the updated ones.

I would agree with Jason on the diesel vs gas....not too mention the diesel tows better in IMHO.

If you are looking for some detailed info on the duramax I would say to go look at Dieselplace.com There are tons of guys on there who are techs and modify them. There is a ton of info on there for you to read. Many of the guys on there plow with their trucks and don't seem to have any problems. They could prob give you more specific stuff to look for on a truck that has been used to plow.

[xjj33p3r]

As well as the Brake Controller, I'd also recommend getting some extra helper springs for a 1500 if you end up getting one. I've towed with my f150 5.4L a few times, and the times I have towed with it have already caused slight sagging. The brake controller is fantastic, but if you get something like a 2500 HD truck, you might not have to worry so much about it.

I had a friend tow my jeep with no trailer brakes, and it actually stopped better than my truck could with a brake controller and electric brakes... Funny how that works, eh?
________
Pornstars Brunette (http://www.****tube.com/categories/849/brunette/videos/1)

[Hoofmann]

i love all the newer model diesels. ford 7.3that was ford's 1st diesel motor. i think it was replaced by the 6.0L in '04 and this year they've got the 6.4L.

[BigTex]

My 1500 never sagged, but then again it was a Dodge:p

No matter the series truck, ALWAYS get a brake controller. Besides I would say diesels need brake controllers more then a gasser since diesels can't compression brake the way a gasser does.

[Shane]

that was ford's 1st diesel motor. i think it was replaced by the 6.0L in '03.5 and this year they've got the 6.4L.
That 6.4 is a quiet mofo

[Hoofmann]

I personally think that any diesel is good, except the 6.0L. if you want an auto tranny, the dmax is your guy.

[J.D.]

that was ford's 1st diesel motor. i think it was replaced by the 6.0L in '04 and this year they've got the 6.4L.

Actually the 6.9 IDI was their first followed by the 7.3 IDI then the 7.3 Power Stroke and so on.

[J.D.]

I personally think that any diesel is good, except the 6.0L. if you want an auto tranny, the dmax is your guy.

Agreed, however the 6.0 can be made into a good motor by getting rid of the variable vain turbo for an aftermarket unit. The stock one was too small and caused extreme EGTs.

[Shane]

Agreed, however the 6.0 can be made into a good motor by getting rid of the variable vain turbo for an aftermarket unit. The stock one was too small and caused extreme EGTs.
and occasionally froze

[Leadfoot]

An Aurora kit would be a nice upgrade to solve that :rock:

[XJAndy]

As far as the gas vs diesle thing i say get what you can afford. I personaly went for a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 5.9 gasser in it. The only towing I have done with it has been in some pretty extreme conditions. We are talking about 5000lbs of construction materials being towed up one of the steepest mountains if not the steepest mountain on the east coast. This road is nothing like you would encounter on normal highway driving. Over all the truck did fine in the power department. I was able to go about 30mph up the mountain which has a speed limit of 25. The down side was that right at the top of the mountain my trans temp light came on. I think that this is a two part problem. The first part being the fact that I am in desperate need of a trans flush and the 2nd part being my shifting from 2nd to 1st when i hit the real steep parts or felt like the truck was starting to bog down.

I do plan on putting some 4:10s in the axles in the few months and with that it should tow like a champ.

[YJay90]

Good advice guys :thumbsup: I am looking to buy soon too and this post answered a lot of my Q's

Couple of Q's, though...

I was looking at Dodge 1/2 ton gassers and the autos had about a 1200lb higher tow rating than the 6spds. How come? Is it like this w/ diesels as well or is this particular 6spd tranny just unusually weak?

Around here I see 6.0L PSs EVERYWHERE. MUCH more common than the D'max and Cummins. If the PS is the ****tiest choice, shouldn't sales represent that?

[Jeepin Jason]

I read a stat somewhere that said that Ford sells more diesel trucks than Dodge and Chevy combined. :dunno:

The 6.0L may not have the best reputation (and Ford and International are currently fighting over payment on the warranty claims on that motor), but Ford sells a sh#t-ton of SuperDuty trucks.

[bbaCJ8]

I read a stat somewhere that said that Ford sells more diesel trucks than Dodge and Chevy combined. :dunno:

The 6.0L may not have the best reputation (and Ford and International are currently fighting over payment on the warranty claims on that motor), but Ford sells a sh#t-ton of SuperDuty trucks.
That's cuz it's such a popular fleet vehicle. I'm not sure why.....could be cuz of quality and power, or maybe just cuz they give better incentives so it comes out being a lot cheaper.



I've had a good bit of experience with DMax's....both were in 06 trucks with the Allison. One was dually, the other was SRW, both towed amazingly. The controls between the Allison and the DMax are top-notch, between tow mode and the electronic gear controls.....just plain awesome. I LOVED towing with that setup. I towed ~9000 bs from Michigan to South Carolina including quite a few mountain passes and had absolutely no complaints. Just plain wonderful. I don't like the IFS, but I wouldn't hesitate for a second if I found a deal on one of those trucks.
I also have a friend with an 05 putting about 400hp and 800 lb-ft to the wheels.....incredible. 5 passengers and it still broke em loose in 4 hi. His Allison tranny started slipping at around 25k from all the abuse though, but he has upgrade plans in the works.

I've had pretty limited experience driving a 2003 7.3 PSD, but I wasn't impressed. Much less refined than the DMax and didn't seem to make near the power.

Sadly I have no experience driving a Cummins, but they don't get a reputation like they've got without a good reason. That'd definitely be my first choice if I were buyin one.....which I may do in the not too distant future. Cheapest decent one I could find when I was buyin my truck was 2 years older, had twice the mileage, and was still $5k more than my truck. Not saying it wasn't worth it, but it was simply $5k that I didn't have.

[Shane]

6.0>7.3 power wise, but other way around overall.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 6.0. They have a lot of power and they do hold up. The 06/07 were the best years. A lot of problems wif the 03.5-04's though

[XJ Fanatic]

Around here I see 6.0L PSs EVERYWHERE. MUCH more common than the D'max and Cummins. If the PS is the ****tiest choice, shouldn't sales represent that?


Ever notice you see more fords than any other domestic vehicles? I have. Its because ford offers great incentives but i'd never ever get a ford as a primary vehicle

[Hoofmann]

ford has very nice trucks if you look no further than skin deep. good style, very nice interiors, sub-par motors in the diesel dept. that has me convinced that the reason ford sells alot of diesels is because of the interior. all diesels turn out a ton of torque and thus will always tow nicely, but cummins is top dog engine wise. . . i'm a lil biased tho! :D

alot of people expect their trucks to be comfy, so ford wins there.

[FX4Jeep]

ford has very nice trucks if you look no further than skin deep. good style, very nice interiors, sub-par motors in the diesel dept. that has me convinced that the reason ford sells alot of diesels is because of the interior. all diesels turn out a ton of torque and thus will always tow nicely, but cummins is top dog engine wise. . . i'm a lil biased tho! :D

alot of people expect their trucks to be comfy, so ford wins there.


I agree with you on that one, Fords are VERY nice to look at inside and out. I HATE how a dodge looks, other wise I woulda bought one, I just cant stand how ugly they are. JMHO I Dont know about Ford being sub-par. Pulled my jeep and 2 Ploaris 700 Sportmans for 2700 miles and I never had one problem. I could still fly past people we need be. It has enough power. A truck that big and towing 6,500+ pounds shouldnt be going that fast anyways.

[Leadfoot]

Around here I see 6.0L PSs EVERYWHERE. MUCH more common than the D'max and Cummins. If the PS is the ****tiest choice, shouldn't sales represent that?

There are many die hard ford guys. For years they were the best diesel truck out their in terms of total package. Most of the PS guys have to get burned really bad to buy another. I have a few friends that are Ford freaks, but own DMAX or Dodge diesels now. They won't touch the PS.

Same thing here...they would rather push their Ford than drive anything else.

[J.D.]

Any super duty with a cummins swap would be the best of all worlds!!

[Hoofmann]

www.fordcummins.com

[Jeepin Jason]

Any super duty with a cummins swap would be the best of all worlds!!

With an Allison backin' it all up. :pimp: But only if there was a Megacab SuperDuty. :yes:

[jschmidt88YJ]

i worked at a dealership for a few years and when someone came in to trade in a car that was plowed with, they gave them absolutely nothing as far as trade in value goes. i dont know much about the truck, but i would say that you should take what is a good deal and knock about 4-5 grand off the top and make that your offer. chances are they have very little invested in the truck and are using it to make a huge profit. save the money now on the front end cuz you'll end up putting it back into it down the road.

[XJAndy]

I had another towing experiance today with the Dodge. Today the load was 40 80# bags of concrete which is 3200lbs on a trailor that weighs about 1k so we will call it about 4200lbs. Again today I was towing it up the same steep *** mountain and again today the trans temp light came on. I was however trying to haul *** because I had a 7.3l ford behind pulling a trailor behind me and I could hear his turbos spooling up from the cab of my truck with the radio on. So I think he had done some work to his truck. I did open up a big lead on him in one section but it was probably because he let off the gas.

Total over all impression of my truck is that it NEEDS 4.10:1 gears. That is it. Before I do much towing at all I WILL swap gears in the D60s.

[J.D.]

I had another towing experiance today with the Dodge. Today the load was 40 80# bags of concrete which is 3200lbs on a trailor that weighs about 1k so we will call it about 4200lbs. Again today I was towing it up the same steep *** mountain and again today the trans temp light came on. I was however trying to haul *** because I had a 7.3l ford behind pulling a trailor behind me and I could hear his turbos spooling up from the cab of my truck with the radio on. So I think he had done some work to his truck. I did open up a big lead on him in one section but it was probably because he let off the gas.

Total over all impression of my truck is that it NEEDS 4.10:1 gears. That is it. Before I do much towing at all I WILL swap gears in the D60s.

Sounds like you need a better tranny cooler. Gears will def help but upgrading or adding another trans cooler will help alot.

[Onkover]

I was in the market for a dd/tow rig last year. Before I bought what I have I test drove them all. I am no stranger to diesel power being a long haul trucker. IN the big trucks I have also run them all. IN the pick ups I went with the GMC 2500HD Dmax Allison. Allison being the best trans out in the market to date was a selling feature yet many other factors went into my choice. After my test drives I found the Dmax is the quietest, smoothest, quickest to spin up and funnest to drive. From the factory with 100,000 mile warranty that I could not get from Ford or Dodge. The aftermarket is filled with more extras also.

I found the Fords to be lumbering and almost having a clumsy feel. The Powerstrokes will set you back in the seat but are LOUD!! While in traffic if a Powerstroke pulls up next to me it drowns out my engine noise entirely. Not the exhaust sound but just the rattle...yuck. My Jeep rattles enough.

The Cum-a-long is said to be a selling point in the Dodge but I like CAT's!! The Dodge is sort of aggressive looking and this at first was my first choice. Then I drove it. The hood lines make thing really hard to see. I couldn't get over how bad the visuals were. The dealer asked me "are you going to be able to handle a truck this big?" I turned to him and said " Being that I have driven Class A Semi Trucks for 10 years I don't think I'll have a problem" It was sort of fun to drive but way stiff and vary slow on the spin up.

With my Dmax I can power brake for days. This thing is nothing short of awesome. Really if I had to sell my Jeep or the Dmax I would cry..and then sell my Jeep.

[J.D.]

The aftermarket is filled with more extras also.


More then cummins and power stroke? I don't think so. Cummins takes number 1 in aftermarket support follwed by powerstorkes simply because they out number the cummins and dmax combined followed by the dmax. This is in terms of aftermarket support not which is better or more popular. The Dmax is still growing very fast in the aftermarket and will probably have more options then the powerstroke really soon but it will take them a while to pass the cummins in aftermarket support simpley because the cummins didn't change much from the early 90s till now with then all new 6.7. I am curoius to see what happens as far as aftermarket stuff with all of this new emissions crap for 2007 diesels. I think that the aftermarket support for the dmax does get the most power output per item i.e the same chip in a dmax gets more power then in the other two. All of this is just my opinion. And if I had 50,000 bux laying around I would have a hard time choosing between the dmax and cummins.