Front d44 options

[jeepkid05]

Ok. I searched a bit, and couldnt find much, and really I know what I need, I just wanted to get some opinions.

I have a 8.8 rear right now in my 99 XJ.

I want a stout axle for the front for a good stout setup for 35's or a light 36"
like the Irok.


I suppose I could go with the waggy 44 front, but what should I do about bolt pattern to convert it to 5 on 4.5 or 5.5 (if I had alloys in the 8.8 with bolt pattern oprions) so I have matching BP's.

Thats my first question about bolt pattern.


Or my next option, which would be much more work would be shortening a ford hp44, which would be nice because of the strength and HP, and once that shortened I would be using waggy shafts anyway that are 6 lug...


So really what this post stems down to is bolt pattern and what I should do about it.



Unless there are some oddball front axles out there that are driver side drop that I should know about that would be a good jeep swap.


Thanks guys.

[verrive]

Plenty of guys around here have run a HP D30 on 35"s no problem, locked too, if it was me I'd just invest in a set of alloys and not worry about all the extra work of a D44.

[XJ Fanatic]

strength wise the d30 is plenty strong, i'd not run one again on 35s though, unibearings just cant take it. One thing to remember is the front shafts are not drilled for anything, thats the hub/rotor assembly on 44s. I would either do a ford narrowed or a waggy 44 with flatops and ford hubs, you'll be at 5x5.5 bolt pattern, this is easy to match to the 8.8 with a pair of adapter/spacers, or alloys.

[JeepXJ3]

Plenty of guys around here have run a HP D30 on 35"s no problem, locked too, if it was me I'd just invest in a set of alloys and not worry about all the extra work of a D44.

After seeing the rigs on 35's this past weekend tear up thir 30's, I would be looking for a 44 as well.

Look into a Jeep Waggoneer. They offer both PS or DS drop.

[verrive]

I'm running a D60 front so I don't have a whole lot of room to talk, but I've seen plenty of guys get down on the skinny and still have it surive, other than the hubs portion, guess you just gotta have a certain amount of finess.

[diesel298]

Me personally
i would rather singk the money into a d44 rather than upgradibng components on the d30.
that can get spendy, and with less money and the same or little more time a 44 can be sittin in there all nice nice

[XJ Fanatic]

main reason to do the 44 is the fact that the axle can normlaly be had for less than lockouts of a d30, and for about 1000 grand starting bear bones on each you'll end up further on the d44 specially since d30s can easily bring 300 bux

[nblehm]

Or my next option, which would be much more work would be shortening a ford hp44, which would be nice because of the strength and HP, and once that shortened I would be using waggy shafts anyway that are 6 lug...



:lol:

why would a shaft turn a ford axle into 6 lug...more reading for you

[xj4life]

get a waggy housing but use ford 1/2 ton outers with 5on5.5 pattern. then get adaptors for the 8.8. that's what i did. only bad thing is you cant run high steer on a ford d44 unless its the 3/4 ton 8 lug version.

[nblehm]

main reason to do the 44 is the fact that the axle can normlaly be had for less than lockouts of a d30, and for about 1000 grand starting bear bones on each you'll end up further on the d44 specially since d30s can easily bring 300 bux


not by the time you get somebody to put brackets on (assuming he cant himself) and all that other business. Plus buying outters and everything to convert it to five lug. That'll get expensive quick. Alloys and long fields and a 30 will hold up fine to 35's or 36's

[4Lo]

:lol:

why would a shaft turn a ford axle into 6 lug...more reading for you

I think he is talking about using Waggy tubes/shafts/etc on a HP 44 center...

[XJ4play]

Plenty of guys around here have run a HP D30 on 35"s no problem, locked too, if it was me I'd just invest in a set of alloys and not worry about all the extra work of a D44.

I'd second that. Building a D44 would be nice, but the costs add up quickly. I'm planning to upgrade to alloys and will probably go with 36" TSL's the next time I need tires.

[Static-XJ]

I think he is talking about using Waggy tubes/shafts/etc on a HP 44 center...
And still the shafts have nothing to do with the end unit being 5 or 6 lug.

[fatwreck]

I put a 44 in the front of my old XJ. I did that before I upgraded the rear....but I mainly did it for locker options, better steering options, lockable hubs, and because I really wanted to learn how to swap an axle like that into my rig. That alone taught me a lot of what I know now. Just throwing shafts into a dana30 doesn't teach you a whole lot about what the rest of the 4x4 world is doing.

With that said, I don't know if I would do another one or not. Dana30s seems to hold up ok to 35s. Those damn unit bearings don't like anything over 31s though. Tough call.

I'd really look into what your budget is and compare the two side by side.....and use some real world costs....not just the $1000 or $1200 that the people who haven't done it usually throw out there.

[XJ Fanatic]

not by the time you get somebody to put brackets on (assuming he cant himself) and all that other business. Plus buying outters and everything to convert it to five lug. That'll get expensive quick. Alloys and long fields and a 30 will hold up fine to 35's or 36's

Really depends on where you are in the country.

For me i can pick up waggy 44s for about 200 bux complete, and alls i'd have to do is buy ford hubs for 30 a piece to get the right bolt pattern.

I got a complete chevy axle with flat tops and lockouts for 70 bux
That is still less than the hub conversion. Assuming he wants to regear, the d30 its just as much to start on a blank 44, with much more in teh way of off the shelf options.

[Static-XJ]

I'd really look into what your budget is and compare the two side by side.....and use some real world costs....not just the $1000 or $1200 that the people who haven't done it usually throw out there.
I agree. I know I wouldn't have been happy with a $1000 D44. That would have been some big sacrifices.

D44 + 5.13 + ARB + alloy shafts + Longfields + new brake hardware + full on highsteer (still might spring for the double arms I really want) > $1000, by a ton.

[Shane]

i have 6-700 in my 44

[XJ Fanatic]

I agree. I know I wouldn't have been happy with a $1000 D44. That would have been some big sacrifices.

D44 + 5.13 + ARB + alloy shafts + Longfields + new brake hardware + full on highsteer (still might spring for the double arms I really want) > $1000, by a ton.
d30, arb 5.13 alloys longfields hub conversion full highsteer >>1000 as well

ANd you wont have alot of off the shelf parts that can be had in a pinch to make it work

[Static-XJ]

Really depends on where you are in the country.

For me i can pick up waggy 44s for about 200 bux complete, and alls i'd have to do is buy ford hubs for 30 a piece to get the right bolt pattern.

I got a complete chevy axle with flat tops and lockouts for 70 bux
That is still less than the hub conversion. Assuming he wants to regear, the d30 its just as much to start on a blank 44, with much more in teh way of off the shelf options.
Then you're open, with factory shafts, 4.11 at the lowest (right?), factory D44 steering (and a z-bend draglink with front leafs), hubs bearings and brakes in who knows what condition.

[XJ Fanatic]

Umm nope highsteer draglink, and new brakes, you can replace the calipers and pads for <40 bux on a 44. I have 800 into the front leaf swap. Went with 4.10s only because thats what i had in the rear and they worked.

And open vs. locked is a null point as you still need to pay for it in a d3

[hwm3]

alls i'd have to do is buy ford hubs for 30 a piece to get the right bolt pattern.

You forgot about spindles.

[HotSEXJ]

I'd build a D60 before I'd ever build a D44 - they're just to "stringcheese" for me

I'd really rather build a FZJ80 axle or an -85 Toyota front, but that's a pass drop thing, you wouldn't understand :f2:

[Static-XJ]

d30, arb 5.13 alloys longfields hub conversion full highsteer >>1000 as well

ANd you wont have alot of off the shelf parts that can be had in a pinch to make it work
Does it look like I'm supporting the D30? I also wanted pass drop, so the factory D30 was out.

What I'm saying is a $200 44 is going to be a piece of **** without dropping a bunch of additional time and money into it. And quite frankly if I was in jeepkid's position, I would buy alloys and a good pair of joints for the 30 and be done.

Me, the D30 was out of the question from square one. I wanted pass drop, 5.13's, already had 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern out back, scrapping the factory front suspension, and with the new leafs full on highsteer was in by default. The D30 made zero sense in my case, and I consider the D44 a stopgap until I can build myself a niner for the front.

[Static-XJ]

You forgot about spindles.
No, you keep the Waggy/Chevy spindles.

[hwm3]

No, you keep the Waggy/Chevy spindles.

Not always.

[Static-XJ]

but that's a pass drop thing, you wouldn't understand :f2:
http://www.phatserver.net/~andy/build/r151f.jpg

:f2:

[Static-XJ]

Not always.
If you you start with a Waggy 44 yes always.

Chevy knuckles, spindles, and calipers, with Ford Rotors/hubs.

Only time to use Ford spindles is on a Ford axle, so you wouldn't be swapping. Even when swapping in 1/2 ton supercab knuckles for all Ford highsteer you can keep the spindles.

Otherwise 5 lug highsteer = Chevy knuckles/spindles/calipers and Ford hubs/rotors.

[nblehm]

Really depends on where you are in the country.

For me i can pick up waggy 44s for about 200 bux complete, and alls i'd have to do is buy ford hubs for 30 a piece to get the right bolt pattern.

I got a complete chevy axle with flat tops and lockouts for 70 bux
That is still less than the hub conversion. Assuming he wants to regear, the d30 its just as much to start on a blank 44, with much more in teh way of off the shelf options.

yeah you can get a waggy 44 outta a junk yard here for 70. then by the time you go through it... convert it to five lug and get all the brackets and everything on it (not sure if he can do it himself or not) plus steering, it adds up real quick like. Mainly the whole getting it under there though. gears and lockers dont matter because he would need to do that to the 30 anyway

[nblehm]

Then you're open, with factory shafts, 4.11 at the lowest (right?), factory D44 steering (and a z-bend draglink with front leafs), hubs bearings and brakes in who knows what condition.


:werd:

[hwm3]

If you you start with a Waggy 44 yes always.

Chevy knuckles, spindles, and calipers, with Ford Rotors/hubs.

Only time to use Ford spindles is on a Ford axle, so you wouldn't be swapping. Even when swapping in 1/2 ton supercab knuckles for all Ford highsteer.

Otherwise 5 lug highsteer = Chevy knuckles/spindles/calipers and Ford hubs/rotors.

What I was saying is that the Waggy spindles don't always work with the Ford hubs. 5 on 5.5 Ford hubs may be cheap, but the Chevy spindles aren't.

[Static-XJ]

What I was saying is that the Waggy spindles don't always work with the Ford hubs. 5 on 5.5 Ford hubs may be cheap, but the Chevy spindles aren't.
I see what you're saying now. I thought you meant Ford spindles with the hubs. Yes the smaller Chevy spindles may be needed (I think I paid $80 each brand new off eBay for mine).

[Vetteboy]

d30, arb 5.13 alloys longfields hub conversion full highsteer >>1000 as well

Yeah, those 5.13s for the Dana 30 will be a really expensive item to have the ring and pinion custom cut. :f2:

After seeing the rigs on 35's this past weekend tear up thir 30's, I would be looking for a 44 as well.

Look into a Jeep Waggoneer. They offer both PS or DS drop.

Yeah, cuz a Waggy 44 has stronger shafts, better u-joints, and a stronger ring & pinion than a D30.

:false:

You really gotta pick your battles with these things. I broke a number of 760x u-joints and Dana 30 shafts so going to a 44 wouldn't have done crap, unless I did alloys or something, in which case the D30 would have still been fine. Ball joints were sort of an issue but I have a feeling that breaking the u-joints really destroyed them more than anything else. Never really had a problem with unit hubs unless I was driving with bias-ply TSL's and terrible alignment.

Then I exhausted my supply of Dana 30 spare parts, and my rear headliner started to fall down, so I chopped the back off the XJ and began the 1-ton axle swap.

[nblehm]

I'm running a D60 front so I don't have a whole lot of room to talk, but I've seen plenty of guys get down on the skinny and still have it surive, other than the hubs portion, guess you just gotta have a certain amount of finess.

yeah the only time I broke my 30 was full throttle full lock, being stupid. This was when I actually wheeled every week too :cry:

[4Lo]

yeah the only time I broke my 30 was full throttle full lock, being stupid. This was when I actually wheeled every week too :cry:

That was with crawlers wasn't it?

[nblehm]

I think he is talking about using Waggy tubes/shafts/etc on a HP 44 center...

more reading for you

[4Lo]

more reading for you

Aww nuts. :slap:

[Wally]

This topic always gets beat to death and at the end of the day, you need to sort through all the BS Post about building a $1,000 waggy 44 for an XJ and listen to the guys like Fatwreck, Nblehm, and Vettboy who've been there done that. Apples to apples a 44 is going to cost you 2 to 3 times what a dana 30 will. To set up a 44 in what i would say is "properly" you would need to run alloy shafts at a min, otherwise you're just loosing ground on the strength gains since the shafts are weaker, the R&P is comperable in a low pinion set up to a HP30, and the ujoints are the exact same.

I wheel with lots of guys running HP30's with 35"-37" MT/R's, 36" TSL SX's and 37" Iroks many of them run alloy shafts in their 30 with fresh spicer joints and have NO issues. For $500 i'd buy a set of alloys, run em in the 30 and be done with it. Sure the unit bearing hubs can be problematic, my adivce is either get a few from a junkyard at $30 a pop, or drop $150 per side and get some with a lifetime warranty and keep the stockers as a spare, but it's really NOT that huge of a problem where you need a spare on the trail. I've said my peace about the dana 44 front so i'll let the some of the clowns continue on with their circus about how cheap and easy a 44 front is to put in an xj :slap:

[T3n5oR]

This topic always gets beat to death and at the end of the day, you need to sort through all the BS Post about building a $1,000 waggy 44 for an XJ and listen to the guys like Fatwreck, Nblehm, and Vettboy who've been there done that. Apples to apples a 44 is going to cost you 2 to 3 times what a dana 30 will. To set up a 44 in what i would say is "properly" you would need to run alloy shafts at a min, otherwise you're just loosing ground on the strength gains since the shafts are weaker, the R&P is comperable in a low pinion set up to a HP30, and the ujoints are the exact same.

I wheel with lots of guys running HP30's with 35"-37" MT/R's, 36" TSL SX's and 37" Iroks many of them run alloy shafts in their 30 with fresh spicer joints and have NO issues. For $500 i'd buy a set of alloys, run em in the 30 and be done with it. Sure the unit bearing hubs can be problematic, my adivce is either get a few from a junkyard at $30 a pop, or drop $150 per side and get some with a lifetime warranty and keep the stockers as a spare, but it's really NOT that huge of a problem where you need a spare on the trail. I've said my peace about the dana 44 front so i'll let the some of the clowns continue on with their circus about how cheap and easy a 44 front is to put in an xj :slap:


werd,ask wally 'bout my 44, it got spendy, but then i run 40's full throttle full lock with no ill effects...

[jeepkid05]

werd,ask wally 'bout my 44, it got spendy, but then i run 40's full throttle full lock with no ill effects...


Isnt your TJ a 2.5L...? Having 4 angry squirrels under the hood would help a bit in preventing breakage...

[Wally]

Isnt your TJ a 2.5L...? Having 4 angry squirrels under the hood would help a bit in preventing breakage...

Nope, T3N50R runs full throttle with a 6cyl and atlas 5.0, but he also has the stock center section and tubes, everything else from the knuckles out is all aftermarket. If you're going to build a waggy 44 to stand up to abuse, T3N50R's is a great example of how to do it, the down side, is it's going to cost you well over $4,000 for everything he has in his with you doing all of the labor :bang: Another key to his success is he's running one of the lightest 40" tires avail, as well as 4.56 ring and pinions which are much stronger than the 5.13's and deeper

[jeepkid05]

Thats where Im having the issue, because I could build a d44 to be plenty strong for what I want to do, but by the time the 44 is strong I could have run a 60, butttt to make a 60 work on an XJ is much more than you 'framed' folk :f2:

Ill probably just end up throwing alloys in the d30 and call it a day.

One question, I was reading on http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/30spline/30spline-1.htm

if I were to do that to my d30, is that a full 3 spline shaft into the carrier... I think not, Is it just a 30 spline stub into the unit hub....? Because making my d30 a 30 spline would require the super 30 kit and new carrier, correct?

[Wally]

if I were to do that to my d30, is that a full 3 spline shaft into the carrier... I think not, Is it just a 30 spline stub into the unit hub....? Because making my d30 a 30 spline would require the super 30 kit and new carrier, correct?

I have 2 friends running this kit, i think it's a waste, the axle shafts are not the weak link in the 30, a 27 spline alloy shaft will take LOTS of abuse, and everyone one i've seen that has been beat to $HIT every weekend for an entire season ended up with some twisted splines, which are covered by warranty, and in the rare instance you did snap an alloy, you could run the stock shafts for a spare to get you out of there. If you do the super 30 kit, you now have a *******ized front axle shaft, and no way of carrying spares unless you pony up another $500 for a set of alloy spares on top of the money you spent for the new 30 spline locker and alloys that are already in it :thumbsdow

$500 for alloys, $30 for two new spicer ujoints and call it DONE, carry your stockers as spares and maybe another $60 for a pair of used unit bearings down the road. Or you can dump $4,000 into a 44 front :lol:

[myjeepsbigger]

...my rear headliner started to fall down, so I chopped the back off the XJ....

Totally off subject, but that's funny right there!!! :lol: :lol:

[xj_man_646]

mogs.


that is all.

[Vetteboy]

mogs.


that is all.

You're only saying that because you've never had to fix a cracked-off portal box from a hard-ish side landing.

[nblehm]

werd,ask wally 'bout my 44, it got spendy, but then i run 40's full throttle full lock with no ill effects...


except for those straight on under cuts :f2:

[T3n5oR]

except for those straight on under cuts :f2:
oh ya, LOL. but superior warranty'd that!!! I had it fixed by noon. And wally it wasn'y quite that much, but you point is well taken. It was alot. I coulda done a 60 cheaper, but wasnt expecting on going to 40's so opted for the clearance. for 35's a 60 would be an anchor. Just my 2 sense.