Funny man talked to me today

[WhyJay]

Said Cummins was getting put in fords. I laughed really loud. Then told him to get back into his ford. He said cummins signed a contract with ford and dodge was getting a different deisel.

[Nicholas]

ford has owned the rights to cummins for the last couple years and are letting dodge use it. So it could be very true that they are going to be put in Fords real soon.

[Shane]

Dream come true. Cummins in a ford

[Jeepin Jason]

Doesn't Ford use Cummins motors in some of their commerical chassis trucks? Like the big F650's?

Dodge will still be using Cummins motors for a while though, I haven't seen any talk of them discontinuing them on the forums, just talk about the upcoming 6.7L.

I'd just like to have an Allison tranny behind a Cummins, in either a Ford or Dodge body. :yes:

[HotSEXJ]

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000CCA69-DC26-1E30-8DDB80C4A8F00000

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000C518F-094B-1E31-850880C4A8F00000

[Hoofmann]

The sales manager when I bought my Cummins told me that Ford owns somewhere around half of Cummins but Dodge signed the contract with Cummins before Ford owned that much. The Dodge/Cummins contract is going to be up in a few years and Dodge trucks are roomored to start running Mercedes Diesel engines. No word on what Ford's options are.

[Hoofmann]

Dub, I think the F650 runs a CAT diesel, but don't quote me on that.

[Krazy]

And isn't DC going to put the Merc Diesel in the 07 Grand?

[GPSflyer]

Its posted right on cummins website, no part of cummins is owned by ford.

HERE (http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000C518F-094B-1E31-850880C4A8F00000)

[Hoofmann]

Praise the lord! I'd hate to see such a sweet engine in such sh!tty trucks! :p

[Leadfoot]

You got it right. That has been rumored for a while now, but I seriously doubt that will happen. however, what is to stop dodge from going with some thing like a CAT motor. Cummins are great, but CAT is the real deal when you step up to the big rigs.

[NickDCJ7]

Praise the lord! I'd hate to see such a sweet engine in such sh!tty trucks! :p
xabillion.

[Aidan]

Praise the lord! I'd hate to see such a sweet engine in such sh!tty trucks! :p
x another billion

[phillyzj]

While i like dodge trucks, Fords seem to hold up better to heavy use. maybe it's speculation and opinion, but tha'ts my impression.

That said, for what i do, i'd rather have the dodge...

[Leadfoot]

While i like dodge trucks, Fords seem to hold up better to heavy use. maybe it's speculation and opinion, but tha'ts my impression.

That said, for what i do, i'd rather have the dodge...

You know, I would have said the same thing about 3 years ago. When I decided to buy a truck I vowed to research and drive all 3 before deciding. Started talking to my buddies who were Ford guys and checking diesel sites. Found out the 6.0 was nothing but problems. (Ford refuses to disclose how much the 6.0 has cost them inwarranty repairs. They used to use that figure to brag about the old 7.3) The old 7.3 was a different story....it would just run forever. The ford guys I knew would only get gas motors in the newer super duties. That meant alot to me.

I agree though. Dodge doesn't have the best reputation for quality. The cummins is a different story. Great motors and they run forever. They have their share of problems as any motor, but nothing abnormally high for the amount produced. The 48re is much improved over previous models, but I would have to get a stick if i were buying one. That's just me though. I think when I looked Ford was out pretty quick. I would take the dodge over a ford right now....even if I did have to get a stick to feel good about it. Ford just isn't the only good truck anymore and GM/Dodge have made huge strides in quality and performance.

[Jeepin Jason]

The poor reputation of the 6.0L was the main reason we went back to looking at Dodge. If the 6.0L had had the reputation of the 7.3L, I can almost guarantee you we'd have been in an F250 right now. I think we'll be happier in the long run in the Megacab though, so in our case it's probably a good thing the 6.0L has problems. :lol:

[phillyzj]

yea, i'd want to get a stick in the dodge as well. Chryco trannies while they may be better than were, still aren't good in my book. my zj's 42re is a POS.

oh, and i still don't want 1ton IFS :D

[swish]

This is all true just wait a few years. Rumor has it dodge is going to catapiller...

Its about time ford got rid of that POS powerstroke

[Jeepin Jason]

oh, and i still don't want 1ton IFS :D

SFA was one of the main reasons we were only looking at Ford and Dodge.

[Shane]

I drive the diesels on a daily basis at work. Driven a few dodges and **** load of PSD's. I like the PSD's better. I don't think it's really just the motor, i like the whole feel of the Ford over the Dodge. i would love it if a cummins was offered in a ford, would i buy one? Hell no, couldn't afford it.

One of the biggest reasons i like ford over dodge was the full 4 doors. I know that's not an issue now, but when i can afford a diesel, it won't be brand new. And i'm going to make sure to wait and save my money. Probably for a 99.5+ F250 CC Lariate with the 7.3

[nblehm]

blah blah blah I love fords blah blah blah fords the only thing I would ever buy blah blah blah

ok ford boy :f2:

[Shane]

I'll admit it, i do love fords. However, if a Dodge fell in my lap or one came by at a rediculously low price tag....fawk ford.

[Hoofmann]

fawk ford.
Period.

[Jeepin Jason]

I like the PSD's better. I don't think it's really just the motor, i like the whole feel of the Ford over the Dodge.

After driving both, I much preferred the Dodge myself. The F250 felt like driving a bus, the steering ratio just seemed slow for some reason. The Dodge feels much more like a giant version of our Jeeps, even though the seat height actually right in btwn those in my XJ and in our TJ.

One of the biggest reasons i like ford over dodge was the full 4 doors. I know that's not an issue now...

That was the biggest thing that Dodge messed up on with the current Gen3 trucks. When they finally got around to making a 4-dr truck, it wasn't significantly bigger than an extend-cab Chevy. That's why Dodge had to come out with the Megacab. Just to get rear passenger room equal to or better than the F250/350 in the Dodge you've got to get a Megacab.

[swish]

Is the only reason no one has even considered a chevy is because of IFS? If thats true thats pretty ridiculous considering the engine is stronger than both ford and dodge, and the newer generation is going to blow the both of them away.

[GPSflyer]

Is the only reason no one has even considered a chevy is because of IFS? If thats true thats pretty ridiculous considering the engine is stronger than both ford and dodge, and the newer generation is going to blow the both of them away.


By stronger I assume you are referring to HP & TQ numbers. Dodge has been doing this for years, sandbagging the numbers until the other companies advertise theirs. GM will advertise the new Dmax at 670ftlbs (im just picking a number) then a couple of months later cummins will just dump some more fuel on the ISB and it will make even more power. Look how many times they did it with the previous version. With that said, if I am going to buy a truck for its reliablity and longevity, I will buy a I6 over a V8 anyday. Less moving parts, one less cylinder head, and there is more room on the crank for wider bearings, since theres two less connecting rods. All 3 companies have good diesel engines, it almost comes down to personal preferance.

[Jeepin Jason]

It's not rediculous at all, and I'd bet there's a lot of folks that'd argue that Cummins > Duramax. I remember seeing pics somewhere of the internals, and the Duramax had the smallest parts of the three. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to rag on the Duramax, I just don't think it's got the reputation that the Cummins does, or the 7.3 PS for that matter.

SFA is the main reason Jeep is still what it is, because we know it's not because they've got superior engineering or quality, to say, Toyota. For what we were looking for in a truck of this type, we wanted a SFA, plain and simple. It's cheaper and easier to work on, much cheaper and easier to lift, stronger IMHO, and generally speaking the ride height is higher on the SFA Dodges and Fords than the IFS Chevies. IFS is why Chevy is loosing out in the HD market to Ford and Dodge. In fact a few years ago I heard a rumor that Chevy was going to go back to SFA on their 1-ton trucks to try and gain back the market share they've lost to their SFA Dodge/Ford competition, but I have yet to see any factory SFA Chevy trucks, so I guess it was just a rumor.

That all said though, we actually did look at the Chevys, GMC's to be exact, because we loved our Tahoe and Denali XL, and we liked our local GMC dealership. The problem we found was, one, the trucks are IFS, two, GM has stopped production of their Duramax trucks for about a year due to the emissions changes so it was slim-pickin's if we wanted a diesel GM product. None of the GMC trucks available had a sliding rear window, something we really wanted. And overall the GM trucks just looked, well, wussy compared to an F250 or a Dodge Heavy-Duty. They were shorter and the front end styling was boring. Blame my ego if you want, but if I'm going to be driving a big diesel truck, I want to be driving a big bossy-looking truck, and GM just isn't that, at least not without a lot of aftermarket help -- and I didn't want to have to spend a lot of cash to make our truck look good. The Chevy HD trucks look better than the GMC's, but we'd still run into the same issue of lack of availability and options due to the trucks essentially being 'discontinued' until next fall.

If we'd have been looking for a 1/2-ton truck, we'd probably have gone with a Sierra Z71, but for a heavy-duty diesel, GM just didn't stack up against Ford or Dodge when it came to what we were looking for.

[Leadfoot]

Honestly, I thought completely different. I drive my truck all the time and plan on using it to tow. The IFS rode better and I wasn't even getting 4WD (that's what the Jeep is for). Several people I wheel with have HD dodge and ford and hate to do much with it because the axles aren't up to the HD diesel. They are too weak for it.

I just didn't see the point of worrying about a SFA when it is barely leaving the cement. a 2WD will get me in and out of everywhere I tow my Jeep. I don't plan on lifting it or anything like that. Money for lifts and 4WD goodies are for the Jeep. The one thing GM did bad was the tire size. My stock tires lasted 200 miles before I swapped em.

As far as GM not looking to tough. Maybe not, but tell that to the Powerstroke I parked next to the day I got my truck. My 2WD GMC was taller than his 4WD. Not by much, but it was. He was all irritated and asked if I lifted it. I just laughed and said "nope and its 2WD" and kept on walking. My buddy was cracking up at him.

Everyone likes something different. I looked at all 3 and considered the reason I was getting the truck. I purchased what fit the best based on all of those factors and I am happy.

[Jeepin Jason]

Everyone likes something different. I looked at all 3 and considered the reason I was getting the truck. I purchased what fit the best based on all of those factors and I am happy.

And that's really what it all boils down to. :thumbsup:

[BigNutt]

SFA was one of the main reasons we were only looking at Ford and Dodge.

Me too and its crazy cause I know the new Chevys are better trucks than Ford or Dodge in everything except the Cummins. My dad loves his 05 Duramax with Alison tranny.

[Hoofmann]

Is the only reason no one has even considered a chevy is because of IFS? If thats true thats pretty ridiculous considering the engine is stronger than both ford and dodge, and the newer generation is going to blow the both of them away.
I have a friend who works at ATS Diesel performance. He tells me he's seen a number of D-max's in the shop for cracked heads. Stronger engine?? I think not.

[Shane]

After driving both, I much preferred the Dodge myself. The F250 felt like driving a bus, the steering ratio just seemed slow for some reason. The Dodge feels much more like a giant version of our Jeeps, even though the seat height actually right in btwn those in my XJ and in our TJ.
Hmm, I haven't driven any of the brand new dodge's, so i'm not sure how they feel compared to the Ford. However, i felt the ford just cruised down the road comfortably.
That was the biggest thing that Dodge messed up on with the current Gen3 trucks. When they finally got around to making a 4-dr truck, it wasn't significantly bigger than an extend-cab Chevy. That's why Dodge had to come out with the Megacab. Just to get rear passenger room equal to or better than the F250/350 in the Dodge you've got to get a Megacab.
I love the space in the Ford. When i used to go places with my friend his mom drove us. She has a 2000 F-550 Crew Cab Dually with the 7.3. Fully loaded/exhaust/chip, that truck is awesome, but i would always ride in the back. I just opened up the door and jumped in. After looking at the ext. cabs, both ford and dodge, i just couldn't imagine making someone ride in the back of one of those.

[hwm3]

Honestly, I thought completely different. I drive my truck all the time and plan on using it to tow. The IFS rode better and I wasn't even getting 4WD (that's what the Jeep is for). Several people I wheel with have HD dodge and ford and hate to do much with it because the axles aren't up to the HD diesel. They are too weak for it.

:squint: Uh, I think you have that backwards.

[swish]

I have a friend who works at ATS Diesel performance. He tells me he's seen a number of D-max's in the shop for cracked heads. Stronger engine?? I think not.

Well if you want to get specific here I will.

Ford - 87 TSBs for the PS
Chevy - 8
Dodge - 0

That being said, obviously you might see some FACTORY heads being cracked because once the duramax is tuned it creates a huge amount of power, and much easier than a beefed up I6. At atco I saw a sierra 2500 on 35's runnin 12.2 with a 6 gun and an exhaust, this isnt including the upgraded turbo/intercooler combo it can get.

[Hoofmann]

Well if you want to get specific here I will.

Ford - 87 TSBs for the PS
Chevy - 8
Dodge - 0

I don't know what this means. Please explain.

[Hoofmann]

Honestly, I thought completely different. I drive my truck all the time and plan on using it to tow. The IFS rode better and I wasn't even getting 4WD (that's what the Jeep is for). Several people I wheel with have HD dodge and ford and hate to do much with it because the axles aren't up to the HD diesel. They are too weak for it.
I don't know about the new AAM axles that are under Dodge nowadays, but they look pretty beefy (I have no idea bout the shafts inside of them though). Ford is running a HP60 front and a full float Sterling 10.25" rear. Those are SOLID axles to be running under a 1ton pickup. The shafts in the front are 35spline inners and 30 spline outters. The rear is comparable to a 14 bolt.

[Hoofmann]

That being said, obviously you might see some FACTORY heads being cracked because once the duramax is tuned it creates a huge amount of power, and much easier than a beefed up I6.
I'm pretty sure the heads are cracking because they're aluminum IIRC. Ford and Dodge are steel.

[swish]

Technical Service Bulletins, and as you can see the powerstroke has cost ford ALOT of money and the cummins and duramax have not for dodge and ford.

[hwm3]

I don't know about the new AAM axles that are under Dodge nowadays, but they look pretty beefy (I have no idea bout the shafts inside of them though). Ford is running a HP60 front and a full float Sterling 10.25" rear. Those are SOLID axles to be running under a 1ton pickup. The shafts in the front are 35spline inners and 30 spline outters. The rear is comparable to a 14 bolt.

Think bigger on the F350 rear. The Sterling 10.25" rear is available in the F150 and light duty F250s. ;)

[xj_man_646]

im not reading this thread, but going back to the cummins in a ford thing, i do remember hearing/reading about it somewhere. i heard that cummins will go into ford, and cummins will get a cat diesel. thats just what i heard, so i can't confirm it.

[hwm3]

As far as GM not looking to tough. Maybe not, but tell that to the Powerstroke I parked next to the day I got my truck. My 2WD GMC was taller than his 4WD. Not by much, but it was. He was all irritated and asked if I lifted it. I just laughed and said "nope and its 2WD" and kept on walking. My buddy was cracking up at him.

:bs: The Silverado 3500 4X4 is listed at 77" tall. F350 4X4 80". But I'm sure your 2wd is taller. :bangtard:

[Jeepin Jason]

on the height thing, the 4wd Sierra 2500's we looked (only 4 in the area) at were all shorter than our Megacab 3500 4x4, and our Megacab is slightly shorter than the F250 4x4's we looked at. However, when you drive by the Ford lot by us, none of the 6 F250 4x4's they've got lined up facing the road sit at the same height. Well, maybe 2 of them do, otherwise they're all slightly different heights, with probably 3" seperating the shortest from the tallest.

[EBJEEPN]

My dad's friend had one of the dud 6.0L's....

It appropriately got the nickname "SUPER DOOKIE" until it got its crap worked out...

[HotSEXJ]

So what are the problems with the 6.0L PSD's?

[swish]

You name it its had a problem, overheating, turbo problems, the engines eating themselves there are 87 Technical Service Bulletins of ways to fix every problem. Monday I'll try to look them up and see exactly what they are...

Problems I know with the duramax from experience is the injectors. Its not every truck with that engine but the last one I did was the last one in the shop with that problem which was February.

[XJEric]

I thought the new Fords were getting the Sterling 10.5". A 10.25" is more comperable to a D70 than it is the 14B. 14B's have 33 spline axles where the D70 and 10.25 are 35. Carrier bearings are bigger, and axle tubes are also bigger/thicker than a 14B. They are nice rear ends, and for a while I was thinking about puting this one I had sitting at home under my GMC. I didn't though, and went through 3 14B's. Now I'm shopping for a D70. I cna't bring myself to put a Ford axle under a Chevy. That's neither here nor there though. I like the PSD's, I'm shopping for an extended cab short box F250 around a '99-'00 for the wife. I'll 'get' to drive the '91 Chevy 1500. Lucky me eh?

[Leadfoot]

I don't know about the new AAM axles that are under Dodge nowadays, but they look pretty beefy (I have no idea bout the shafts inside of them though). Ford is running a HP60 front and a full float Sterling 10.25" rear. Those are SOLID axles to be running under a 1ton pickup. The shafts in the front are 35spline inners and 30 spline outters. The rear is comparable to a 14 bolt.


Actually the Super Duty's that my buddies have are all running Dana 50's from the factory. They keep snapping the shafts.

[Leadfoot]

:bs: The Silverado 3500 4X4 is listed at 77" tall. F350 4X4 80". But I'm sure your 2wd is taller. :bangtard:

I don't know. I never paid much attention to the figures. I just parked next to one that day and that is what we went by. I will take a picture next time so you can believe me.

[hwm3]

I thought the new Fords were getting the Sterling 10.5". A 10.25" is more comperable to a D70 than it is the 14B. 14B's have 33 spline axles where the D70 and 10.25 are 35. Carrier bearings are bigger, and axle tubes are also bigger/thicker than a 14B. They are nice rear ends, and for a while I was thinking about puting this one I had sitting at home under my GMC. I didn't though, and went through 3 14B's. Now I'm shopping for a D70. I cna't bring myself to put a Ford axle under a Chevy. That's neither here nor there though. I like the PSD's, I'm shopping for an extended cab short box F250 around a '99-'00 for the wife. I'll 'get' to drive the '91 Chevy 1500. Lucky me eh?

Yeah, axle strength is definitely not an issue in the F series trucks. My F150 had a 34-spline 9.75" rear, and you can get a 35-spline 10.25" in them. The Super Dutys get much bigger than that.

[hwm3]

I don't know. I never paid much attention to the figures. I just parked next to one that day and that is what we went by. I will take a picture next time so you can believe me.

Don't waste your time. ;)

[Vetteboy]

Here's some good info...

Chevy has always used AAM axles, however they used to have large shares of AAM and it has now become its own venture.

The front IFS ('89+) is a 9.25" AAM, same center section as the '03+ Dodge 2500/3500 solid axle.

Rear axles...... The AAM 1050 found in Dodges is based off the 14 bolt axle Chevy has used since '73 only made cheaper. (no removable pinion support etc) The AAM 1150 was developed for the '01 Dmax truck and also showed up in '01 8.1 L trucks as well '03+ 3500 Dodges and 2500 w/ manuals. I believe all 48re trucks also got it.

Ford used Dana 50 front axles '99-'2001 and then dana 60 front axles (with 35 spline inners) for '05 they have 35 spline outers too.

Rear:
SRW Ford gets Visteon 10.5 (mfg in Sterling Plant) same as the old 10.25" just upgraded.

DRW uses Dana 80.



Also, you can't compare 14FF splines to Dana splines really. The 14-bolt is actually a 30-spline shaft, but the pressure angle and profile are different from a Dana, which is why it's not a problem. It's a larger diameter than the 30-spline Dana shaft.

[Jeepin Jason]

Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

[Hoofmann]

Here's some good info...

Chevy has always used AAM axles, however they used to have large shares of AAM and it has now become its own venture.

The front IFS ('89+) is a 9.25" AAM, same center section as the '03+ Dodge 2500/3500 solid axle.

Rear axles...... The AAM 1050 found in Dodges is based off the 14 bolt axle Chevy has used since '73 only made cheaper. (no removable pinion support etc) The AAM 1150 was developed for the '01 Dmax truck and also showed up in '01 8.1 L trucks as well '03+ 3500 Dodges and 2500 w/ manuals. I believe all 48re trucks also got it.

Ford used Dana 50 front axles '99-'2001 and then dana 60 front axles (with 35 spline inners) for '05 they have 35 spline outers too.

Rear:
SRW Ford gets Visteon 10.5 (mfg in Sterling Plant) same as the old 10.25" just upgraded.

DRW uses Dana 80.



Also, you can't compare 14FF splines to Dana splines really. The 14-bolt is actually a 30-spline shaft, but the pressure angle and profile are different from a Dana, which is why it's not a problem. It's a larger diameter than the 30-spline Dana shaft.
Schooled.

[JeepXJ3]

Just talked to my dad about this, he always keeps good ties with the guys from Cummins, said 07 or 08 you should see the new Cummins motors in Ford Trucks... Who knows.

[Jeepin Jason]

I don't buy it. Ford is coming out with a 6.4L PS motor for '07. That's a known fact. If they were getting a Cummins motor even as soon as '08, I don't see them putting the money into a revised emissions-certified 6.4L only to replace it in less than 2 years. :dunno: And Dodge is gearing up for the new 6.7L Cummins for '07, and I can't see Dodge and Ford both having CTD's. While there are certainly lots of rumors floating around, I think if it was going to be happening by even '08, there'd be more concrete info out. If Ford does eventually get CTD motors, I don't think we'll see it happen this decade.

[hwm3]

Ford will NOT be getting a Cummins engine.

I have also heard that the new twin turbo Powerstroke won't be available until the '08 model, which will come out in Jan '07. The '07 models should be hitting dealers pretty soon.

[Jeepin Jason]

Ford dealership here told us the '07's would have the new motors. :dunno:

'08's out in Jan of '07? :rolleyes: somehow I'm actually not all that surprised (as I thumb through my July issue of 4WD&SU that I've had since May...)

[micaheli]

Praise the lord! I'd hate to see such a sweet engine in such sh!tty trucks! :p

w00t!

[nblehm]

Also, you can't compare 14FF splines to Dana splines really. The 14-bolt is actually a 30-spline shaft, but the pressure angle and profile are different from a Dana, which is why it's not a problem. It's a larger diameter than the 30-spline Dana shaft.

1.5" 31 spline shaft.... they are also heat treated correct?

[Lubes]

Natey FTW.

[JeepXJ3]

Who knows only time will truely tell.

[Vetteboy]

1.5" 31 spline shaft.... they are also heat treated correct?

Ummmmmmmm....gonna go ahead and stick with the 30 spline on this one. I've never seen a 31 spline 14-bolt shaft.

Diameter is right though.

Here's a D60 vs. 14FF shaft, both 30-spline:
http://www.akfabshop.com/alaskaoffroad/images/Tech/14vs60Raxle.jpg

Not sure about the heat treating, although I know BillaVista has always raved about the production methods they used for those shafts.

[Hoofmann]

I know some 14bolts come 31 spline.

[GPSflyer]

14 bolts are the only factory shafts Ive ever seen that were fully thru-hardened. If you look at them from the end, they are blued all the way thru.

[Vetteboy]

I know some 14bolts come 31 spline.

:dunno:

Mine's 30, I can tell you that much. What applications had the 31?

[nblehm]

Shaft strength - 1.5' 30 spline full floating shafts

:icon9:

[Shane]

I am 90% sure i have 31 splines.

[nblehm]

Thats what I thought, I remember counting travis'. But nothing in the 14 bolt bible mentioned anything about 31 spline shafts

[Shane]

I counted the splines when i took 'em out, got 31, said WTF, counted again and got 31

[WhyJay]

I just read an article where they tested ford, dodge, and chevy dualie extended cab deisels towing a big trailer up a hill and stuff...Chevy won. and the only reason dodge didnt come in first is the tranny being a 4 speed auto. (im sure the manual tranny is better) Chevy's 6speed allison is the tits. but ford came in last.